Episode 4 - Grieves

Ashanti Abdullah (00:09.41)
the loadout. I'm your host, Ashanti Abdullah.

And each week we take you behind the scenes of the live music industry. From touring tips and industry insights to candid conversations with artists, managers, and music professionals, we uncover the stories and strategies that make live performances unforgettable. Whether you're an artist, a tour manager, or just a live music enthusiast, this podcast is your backstage pass to the world of touring and live events. Today, we're excited to have the talented rapper and producer, Greaves.

Known for his deeply personal lyrics and unique blend of hip hop and soul, Greaves has made a significant impact in the music scene with albums like Together Apart and Winter in the Wolves. With his signing to Rhymesayers Entertainment and extensive touring experience, Greaves brings a wealth of knowledge about the industry. Join us as we explore his journey, creative process, and behind the scenes insights. Let's get started.

Ashanti Abdullah (01:10.478)
Yes, sir. What it do my big baby boy? I'm chilling man. It's been a minute since we've seen each other and by minute I mean like some months. Yeah, I we gotta catch up in Denver which was really nice but also that was like the smallest. That green room was the size of like a bus bathroom. Not only

You have one of those fan bases where everybody wants to be with you at all times. Yes. Which I still haven't quite figured out yet. And it may be the mustache. might be the definitely the mustache. And I give really good Christmas gifts. So that's what's up. You they stay coming out for your boy. That's what's up. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, let's just get into it. The first thing I really wanted to talk to you about is

What's your early life like and what kind of drew you to music? Like how'd you end up in this world? Yeah, I mean, I think there's probably a hundred different answers to that question depending on the day, right? if I had to like look at kind of like a linear path through all of this, like I feel like my relationship with music as I was younger was relatively normal. You know,

especially being on the business side for so long, like music connects with people, especially at that younger age, because it helps to find moments in their life. Be it, be it you're not understanding as a child, you know, like my son's out here bumping Casper baby pants, he has no idea that he's like developing something right now. You know, but I didn't have that kind of music. I didn't have kids music. My dad, you know, he played the records that he had, which

You know, I remember being like super young. I don't know the age, but it was like preschool kindergarten bump in the Miami Vice soundtrack and you know Stuff like that. We had a lot of BB King a lot of blues a lot of soul in our house a lot of jazz We're in Chicago. My dad's from the Bronx And then you know, my mom liked pop music. This was late 80s early 90s. We got

Ashanti Abdullah (03:27.35)
Wilson Phillips up in this bitch. got, you know, Mariah Carey. Just my mom liked a lot of like female driven pop artists. and she loved Phil Collins. Which is dope. That lady loved Phil Collins. I feel like she would leave the husband and children on Christmas morning for Phil Collins and Michael Bolton, dude, Michael, if she could get tag team.

Yeah, we started off on a strong foot with my mom getting tagged. Mama, I love you. There's two people that united white and black households back in the day. One of them was Michael Bolton. yeah. And the other one was Kenny G. Like, was in every household. And Michael Bolton kind of just looked like a buff Kenny G. He looked like a buff ass Kenny G, dude. For sure. Both of them were getting...

They were definitely in both households for sure. Plus if you weren't looking at the motherfucker, you probably didn't know that Michael Bolton was white. Nah, nah. Cause he had the heart. Yeah. mean you really had to know. You know what I mean? That reminds me, you know who loves Michael Bolton? DJ Quik. DJ Quik. Yeah, that actually makes sense. I was in the fucking car with DJ Quik.

And he made, well, long story, long story, but I ended up driving him around and his security and all that in San Francisco, just on some homie shit. And he was like, yo, I want to go by the painted ladies. I never seen them. And then he just put on, he made, cause he had control of the ox. put on Michael Bolton and the entire pregame, the entire car sang my, I'm talking about these are hardcore bloods, bro. Like everyone was just saying I'm Michael Bolton the entire time.

It's a damn shame that that was not caught on camera and then actually delivered to Michael Bolton's camp. I do actually have video of that, believe it or not. And you know, you know, what is better video of it is whatever. I won't get into that one of the homies. Can you imagine Michael Bolton posting on his Instagram like shout out my blood family? I actually can't, bro. Michael Bolton is a good fucking. He's a good. He's a good. What do you call it? He's a good sport, bro. I've seen him do that.

Ashanti Abdullah (05:42.35)
That'd be amazing. All right. This has been spoken in fruition. Michael Bolton's fucking banging out with the Bloods in 2025. Let's go. That's what's up. Who were like your biggest influences? you had to. For me, like, OK, so so there's all that, right? There's like what my parents provided. Right. And there's the stuff that I gravitated to. I really liked Carole King, too, because I thought the songwriting was really good.

It was like an emotional connection to stuff I didn't truly understand, but it was like, this feels good. And, you know, we were also pushed, like my dad loved like Bob Dylan and stuff like that. But as a kid, you're not really taken to that. That's like, that's not what you're trying to hear when you're a kid, you know? So as an adult or as an adult, but as like a teenager, I found

Myself listening to music that you know, my peers were listening to so I got into the heavier stuff. I got into punk You know, I got into metal but I always like as As the homies gravitated to things that sounded more like noise. I kind of stuck in this realm where it was like I Still really like Metallica. I really like those like really melodic breakouts. I love the instrumental songs like Orion on master puppets

I love No Effects for that very reason. I would say still to this day, they're probably like Desert Island band because they were able to keep, for me at that time, you know, it was like edgy, relatable, felt cool. You know, you could be bumping that shit at the skate park and no one's gonna call you a bitch. But also at the same time, it was melodic and well thought out music beyond its message.

which is something that resonated with me further on to my career, was like, yeah, the message is something that is most likely gonna change because of who you are, right? We talk about different things and we are, as a species, always evolving. you know, we might feel differently about something in five years. That's just the way it is. So messages kinda, they change. Core values are important, but...

Ashanti Abdullah (08:02.926)
For me, the relationship with can the music do the talking instead of the message? Like, can you feel whatever you need to feel from this music? And can I say whatever I need to say over it and have those things exist with each other, but also not necessarily define that song? you know, I don't really sit down to write a song.

about something, I sit down to write a song like, this is how I feel when I hear this. So those lyrics can also be slightly open to interpretation based on how the listener feels to the melodic arrangement of the song. Yeah. I mean, that's called art. Yeah, straight up. It's just, you know, when you get into hip hop and stuff, it's a little dicey because it's a very message focused, driven art form.

But for me, was like when I first discovered hip hop, I was hearing all these records that my dad used to listen to. And I was like, whoa, how'd that get in there? So that became pretty interesting to me because that showed a different relationship with music. And it showed that one song can mean so many other things. Like RZA's out here chopping up old love ballads and turning them into,

crack songs. That's it to me. You know, you hear all the P funk stuff on the West Coast stuff and right and you know, it's you know, you can transform these energies and that's really cool. That's that's very hippie sounding of me. I'm not in a sarong right now in a Grateful Dead shirt. Everybody's got crystals behind them right now. yeah, just hanging in the studio. Got one in my ass right now too, Ashanti.

That's lightly believable. No, I, I totally agree with you, man. For you know, when when people turn in records to me, it's feeling first, I'm not even listening to what they're saying at first. It's more about what how this feels, right? Yeah, yeah. Brown to me, or does it feel blue to me? Or what does it feel like? You know what I'm saying? Does it have weight? Does it?

Ashanti Abdullah (10:13.806)
You know, I'm the same way I can hear something almost immediately, which is I think really frustrates like producers, which is primarily why I do a lot of my own production is and have just folders and folders and folders of beats that I'm never going to touch because they they didn't have the weight. you know, I just if if it doesn't hit me in the first like five to 10 seconds, it never will. And and I don't do loops very well. So like.

I remember talking with Evidence, we were in Europe, and this was kind of like at the peak, not at the peak, but very, as I was starting to climb this mountain of like, okay, I want my music to be a bit more complex. And, you know, we were in Europe and he was like, you know, Greaves, you can rap and you got like this cool voice. We gotta get you on some like one bar loop shit. And I was like, dude, if you put me on a one bar loop beat, I'm gonna give you one bar.

That's about all I got. Because I've like trained my brain now to like, as I write to progress with the song. So I do like four bar segments of, you four bar loops and four bar segments. And who knows by the end of this, I might be doing 32 bar segments. Who fucking knows? But yeah,

But not to take anything away from the One Bar Loop stuff. I listen to an Evidence song and I'm locked in, right? Yeah, for sure. I just don't really have the ability to create something with that weight to that. Right. But he does. Right. So, you know, him and Alchemist and all those cats and the whole thing that they kind of got going on right now. Yeah. It's like a resurgence of that era and that style of music. And, you know, I saw Planet Asia.

drop and I was like, man, I haven't seen this dude ever. Which is sick, you know, because he's got that he can do that too. Yeah. And told me, and was like, y 'all I'm gonna do this thing, you know, so he started a bigger picture recordings. Yeah. Yeah, I'm on the mailing list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, yo, here's what I'm planning to do, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, this is perfect for you, man. He's just been like able to ride this just like yourself.

Ashanti Abdullah (12:30.658)
Just like yourself just been able to just you know what mean? Not for not taking away the fucking work y 'all motherfuckers put in. Don't get me wrong. Y 'all like it's just a version of the work. Yeah. You know, but like it's been it's been pretty amazing. Dropping back to your like overall story. How did you end up signing with Rhymesares? You know, it's. It's interesting.

I hate to be one of those people that it's like, all about who you know, da ba da ba da ba da. But I mean, it is. You don't get the job without applying, right? So, and you don't just apply to any job, you know, like if you don't have the skillset, that's something I've noticed, but we can get into that later.

I'll try to make this as short as possible. I discovered Rhymesayers and that was another part of redefining what I thought something was capable of. I'm listening to Mobb Deep, I'm listening to Cormega, I'm listening to some Cuddy East Coast, cut you with a box cutter music. There's not a lot I can contribute to that world.

I do, I love it. But you know, you're not gonna catch me out there making that kind of music. I make a lot of those beats, but back then it was just like, you know, how is that? No connections. And if I'm the one making the music, you know, it doesn't really add up to have that. So I found Rhymesayers and I was like, shit, like I love these beats. They have the weight, very melodic. It's tying me back into

that Carole King feeling where it's like, it doesn't have to be hard to be strong. And, you know, I heard a lot of that stuff and it kind of changed me and opened up my view on things. So definitely a fan, right? Listened for a long time. Found out there were some Rhymesayer dudes in Seattle. Shout out my boys, Grayskull, Henri and JFK. And

Ashanti Abdullah (14:47.06)
you know, they were kind of like big talk of the town. And of course, the Boombap Project, Jake One, Vitamin D, all those dudes, there was like a little satellite thing of rhyme sayers going on here. And that was really cool to see because I was like, damn, well, maybe one day I'll be I'll get to meet those dudes, but not just putting myself in the room with them, enforcing this interaction. was just like, well, let's get to work. And, know, hopefully, you know, I could catch up. Yeah. And I did.

Not really in the way that I thought I would. met, Henri in Portland. I, you know, we played a show in front of nobody, but he, he was there. He was like the only one there. reached out. He knew we had a studio in Seattle, started working on the, some of the JFK stuff, recording him and producing beats for him. And then there, something had happened. They, they didn't have a setup for.

They were going on tour with Atmosphere to support their record, Bloody Radio, that just came out. And they didn't have a DJ or just kind of any help. And they brought it up and talked to me and asked me if I'd be interested in joining them. And, you know, I immediately jumped on it, just wrangled up every last dollar that we had. My manager at the time, Matt, you know, he threw some money at it too. We negotiated with Rhymesayers to a degree because at this point it was

Okay, they do need us to go, but I'm not a DJ. You know, we want our name on the website.

and as much of the fly, you know, the flyering as possible. And then, you know, if I'm DJing, I just want a verse a night. And then it turned out like, I got a DJ for Lucky. I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, now, you know, Mack Lethal's in the van, Lucky's in the van, know, da da da da da da. And I was like, man, if I'm providing services, so are you. So, you know, that's how I met Mack and started rapping with him.

Ashanti Abdullah (16:49.998)
And you know, I met Jay Bird on that tour. I remember playing like a Warner Brothers showcase in Baltimore at the Rams head or something like that. you know, he came up to me afterwards and he's like, why are people asking me who the fuck you are? And I was like, damn, that's intimidating. And I guess, yeah, I guess I don't know if it was Warner or what, but some people were asking who I was.

You know, so I went through that tour. made sure that I spent, you know, I printed up 10 ,000 demos of the record that was out that I just dropped, Irreversible. This is 2007. I knew I wasn't going to get anybody to buy it. So I put what I thought were like the four strongest songs of the record. And I printed 10 ,000 CDs and I just handed them all out. I had 10 ,000 conversations on that tour. I wasn't standing at the door winging CDs at people.

I wore bright clothes for people who knew who I was once I got in the crowd. It was very thought out. Yeah. I look back in the pictures and I want to cringe, but like, you know, I would buy, you know, like I had like a bright red and yellow and blue stripe like looking like Freddy Krueger LRG hoodie. had bandanas with animal mouths on them and shit like I was standing out. so when I got into the crowd, people were like, shit. And then, you know, have a conversation, give them a CD.

And I hope it translates and it did, which was great. Started running with Mac afterwards because that's where I came from, right? Like I, it was the Indie spirit. was, wasn't, no one was knocking on my door. And Mac was like, yo, let me help develop you. Let me, you know, he put me on every tour. We ran around for a while.

you know, long story short, he wanted me to sign some papers that didn't make a lot of sense. So I didn't sign those papers. It upset him quite a bit. But I'm proud of myself because that was a really bad idea. I didn't do that. But that, you know, it made him upset. He said some pretty mean things and, you know, it real public about it. And then I had people like, you know, say Francis was had said some stuff

Ashanti Abdullah (19:07.478)
Some other people were saying things and it was like, man, none of y 'all know me. I'm advocating for myself. I've never done anything wrong. I never took a dime from Mac, paid my own way through this whole thing. it felt bad. the only person that seemed to care was POS. So I called him up and we talked for a while and I was discouraged. Because I felt like I had given so much of myself to something.

it felt bad to piss so many people off over nothing. so I was talking with him and I kind of wanted to quit because I was like, this feels bad. This doesn't feel good. This is not why I wanted to do this. And if this is the beginning of it, like it has to get worse. Right. And he's like, look, you're entitled to do whatever you want. I think you're dope. I think you should.

You know, like, it's hard when these storms happen because you're in a storm, right? But, you know, everything dries out eventually and the sun comes out and all these things. And I just don't think that you should quit before you talk to somebody. And so he patched me in with Sadiq. And Sadiq and I, talked for a long time. I was living in New York at the time and we talked for...

months, maybe two months. I used to go up on my roof. I have this very like visual memory of it of me sitting up there in the evenings talking with Sadiq and me being pretty frustrated with my current situation and, you know, trying to figure out how to get some control back and all that stuff. eventually he was like, you could do that, you could do

This is back when like you remember Koch distribution. yeah. So they were a big part of why I walked away because they wanted me to sign a distro contract with Max label. But I didn't have a contract with Mac and all the money would go to Mac. But there's no saying that I, you know, it's just right. Bad business. Yeah, bad business. And then Koch reached out to me independently and was like, do you want to do this? And I was like, that's bad business, too. Yeah. And so I felt bad and and, you

Ashanti Abdullah (21:21.08)
But also like, should I do this? Do I take this distribution deal? That's how I get my music heard. This is back when people were selling records, right? So if you wanted to be in the store, because we didn't have the other shit, if you want to be in the store, you know, you had to sign these disro deals. And Koch was a big one at that time or an accessible one. know, right. And, you know, Sadik was like, yeah, you could do all that. You could try all that or I could put your records out. I remember like covering up

the microphone hole on my flip phone and just being like, shit. And being like, yeah, I mean, we could talk about it. you know, and then from that point forward, you know, we just went through contract stuff and, you know, I learned a lot over there. Let's get into that. are like, what are some of the lessons you think you got from that or, you know, any memorable experiences from

So my intention in this business has always been to be a part of it, not to ride it, right? A lot of people, the majority of people expect the door to open, them to walk through it, them to be showered in everything that they've ever wanted, and for them to stay as long as they want until they leave. And it crushes spirits, it turns people into drug addicts, it fucks them up, it chews them up, and it spits them out the back door, and it never lets them back in.

That is something I've learned in my experience. I didn't know that then, but how can I be a part of something if I don't understand it? So when I signed, I didn't take any of the extras. I was like, I don't want a merch deal. I don't want management. I have management. I trust them. They care. I can call him at two in the morning and I know he's picking up the phone. And at that time, he's not focused on a bigger artist.

So I'm not going to take a management deal when you have brother Ali and idea and abilities or you know, just because I'm Slim Pickens. I'm top of the pile on my guy. Because we just signed this contract. He wants to be those people. He wants me to be at that caliber. So we kept that. We came to the table with our own agent, our own business, our own lawyer, our like everything.

Ashanti Abdullah (23:48.174)
And I think that helped us in that landscape because I think it showed Sadiq, think it showed Bird, you and just everyone there that like, we're not here to ride the Battle King logo. We're here to do this. And to utilize it for the proper way. For what it is. Yeah, if I'm given half my earnings, I, you know, I'm going to work my half and I'm going

I'm going to expect you to work your ass. And so we we we did that. And I learned a lot because going in, I didn't know about distribution deals. I didn't know about anything. Really, I knew my own experience. like having resources of people that have built something and watched it fail and succeed.

was very valuable as long as you were willing to listen and be humble. Because if you were thinking you had it all figured out, and this is applicable to anything in life. If you think you got it all figured out, why are you here? Why are you here? We should all be learning from you if you got it all figured out. So it was a library of music business knowledge over there.

It was slightly one -sided due to the fact that their experience is based around the success of primarily one artist. So what works for one artist does not necessarily work for other artists. But that is where you can either get frustrated or take from that what is useful and how can you mold that to work for you. So, you know, it was awesome.

There was a lot to learn over there and they worked me real hard. know, they put me on tour with Atmosphere like permanently for like several years. And they know the value of that, you know, like we're not getting paid a lot of money to go. It's like, we're not getting paid any money to do those shows. It's make it work, right? It's, what was the payout

Ashanti Abdullah (26:07.662)
It was like 250. It was like 250 bucks a night, right? And that's for everything, man. That's a done deal. I remember begging Randy to stay in the day rooms from the bus, being like, come on, man. I don't care if it's dirty. I don't care what happened in that room. I just don't have any more money. Let me stay in your dirty ass day room. And he hooked it up. Let us do that. I learned a lot from Randy. I learned a lot about venue etiquette. I learned a lot about load ins, load outs, how to talk to people.

how to be easy, how to show up and do the show that you want to do, but also learn etiquette as an opener. This ain't your show. be amazed. You'd be amazed at how being easy is a game changer. the way it's one of the first things I tell people, be easy, be you. treat you and then they'll remember you as you come in and you just it's just like butter when you show up, man. The advances are easy. When you show up, it's easy. It's

You get in there and knock it out, bro. It's not some big, long, you know what I mean? You get the wrong, if you're not traveling with your own sound, you get the wrong sound on the wrong day, it could be all bad, bro. And I mean, that's another thing. know, we didn't get Randy as our sound guy as the openers, right? But Randy had to facilitate our bullshit, right? Because we need to put stuff on the stage. We have inputs, we have needs, and we're part of the tour. And he has to communicate that.

But let's be real, some of the grumpiest people in the world are sound guys. And the last thing that they want, especially when, you know, big tours like that are touring with their own front of house. Yeah, you know, they're expecting to not work that literally not do anything. Yeah, they're expecting. shit, I ain't got to do nothing. And then, you know, there's a bunch of openers with wants and needs and they don't like that shit.

So I learned how to be easy but still be me. I learned how to have what I need for myself but be easy. And when I build, like I help younger cats and cats like starting out touring or just people in general that want to have a better setup, I help people build their setups to just show up. It don't matter how many inputs, outputs you have, you just drop your tails to them.

Ashanti Abdullah (28:29.898)
And you're done. You will make some of the grumpiest motherfuckers in the world happy as hell if you just show up and be like, I could plug them in for you if you just, I could one to one or, like, I learned that from Andy, man. I learned, I learned how to make the venue work. I looked at people like James at the merch table and, and, and, you know, the back of house stuff. And I figured

how important hospitality is in the venue. James, man, I miss that cat, man. What a legend, dude. That was my boy, man. I miss that cat, man. And none of those cats are ever talking shit. Never. That's another thing I learned. You don't show up and complain. You make it happen. I watched Randy Reeve. There wasn't even a sound system. We showed up to Lubbock and there was nothing. It was like a sports bar. No one complained. I mean, I'm sure there was a little bit of, you know,

Yeah. That's a frustrating situation to be in. Sure. But instead of getting back in the bus and going away and, you know, being an asshole about it, you fix it. Yeah. And, you know, I watched Randy fly a PA and get the doors open in time. Yeah. So that's a huge thing that I learned too, is like you show up and you get your work and man, you show up and you work. You know who I watched rebuild the sound system? Paul Wickman, dude.

yeah, Paul. Get it, man. I freaking Paul. Paul, he is amazing, bro. So he's tour managed for a lot of different people over the years. Big people to you name it from Tyler, you blah, blah. He used to be Ali's tour manager, which is where my connection with him was. And Paul was the corniest white dude you'll ever meet in your life.

He got what he did. He got so I always ask people what keeps him grounded on the road. And I'll ask you that question as well. But Paul's was he ran every single morning. Yeah, he wore a dumb cowboy hat and he just did. But this motherfucker was no joke, man. I watched him rebuild a whole sound system to make sure that the sound like the shit was just all fucked up and he it from ground up to make sure it all sounded good. And same same as him. Same as our boy, Randy had the doors open in time. It's pretty wild.

Ashanti Abdullah (30:47.938)
Yeah, on that note, when did you what? How different was it from when you were just doing those little tours on your own or touring on your own or that maybe they weren't so little to now you're touring on a bigger kind of stage? What was the diff? Like, what was the main thing that you noticed that you're like, shit, I got to make these changes? Fans. Yeah, they had fans. Yeah. Like it

It wasn't people showing up to a hip hop show. It wasn't you got the Friday night in the college district. So there's a bunch of drunk frat boys there. Yeah. That are trying to that are trying to freestyle with you. yes. Like whatever things we figured out before that to get people in a room until the Blue Scholars came along, there wasn't a local hip hop fan base. Yeah. Yeah. Got you. Kids weren't coming out. You could get an opening slot for someone

had fans, a national act. And that's the only time that you got in front of fans. If you're playing all local showcases, which is common, you you're playing in front of other artists. It's not the same thing. I watched, it was fans, man. It was people listening to music. was people that had that relationship that I had with music.

staring and watching and listening and loving and dancing and singing it like it was real fans, right? And it was like, all right Let's get them, know, like this is who we want to play for And we're just gonna keep coming back and we're just gonna keep getting as many of these fans as possible And then we're gonna turn that you know, we're gonna tour with somebody else and we're gonna try to get in front of more fans that's why I never really enjoyed

the things like South by Southwest. It's just a really blown out version of that local showcase where you're just playing in front of people that don't give a shit. And you're paying out to ask for it. I stayed away from those things. No more of those things. Value your home court is what I learned. You play once a year. You build your fans in your city. Don't keep playing for the other rappers and your peers per se, as far as the business is concerned.

Ashanti Abdullah (33:05.71)
You know, build your fan base in your home market and stop being so hung up on your home market. Yeah. Move on. Yeah. You got to move on. I was putting 1500 people in a room in Minneapolis before I could put 500 people in a room in Seattle. Right. I don't care. Right. I'm not. It doesn't matter to me. Yeah. It is a business. You know what I mean? It is a business and you got to figure out how to make the business work in order to continue to do it. Yeah. Quick. When you when you were

Did you know at that time, you're paying dues, you're on tour with the atmosphere and you're playing for 250 bucks a night. Were you aware that you were paying dues for where you're at now, where you're headlining your own tours and you have that same, bro, when I came to Denver, I was like, wow, it's still, it feels like it's bigger than it was before. You know what I mean? Like, Yeah, well, that's a big market, you know?

But I'm just saying like you, you got, still have these, these fans that are just so with it, bro. So with it. So. Well, we still cater to that idea. Right? We still do fan based things. Like we're not, it's, I'm not on the internet every day. I'm not, I'm not doing all this shit. I'm not a TikTok star. I'm not an actor. I don't do skits. I, know,

My contribution to that is events. know, I do these shows. We used to go out to the merch table up until like maybe 2019. I was out there every night. I was paying extra security fees to meet every single person. And, you know, I have a rule that it's, you know, you see venues and I learned this from from the the Rhymeshares camp too is sometimes they have posters of shows that they really liked on the wall or they have

list of artists, photos and stuff like that. You want to be that. Those aren't always sold out shows. Those are people that they really enjoy having through the venue. Those are core memories for those places. You want to show up. You want to be nice. You want to be happy. This is your job. You're happy to be here. You have one of the coolest jobs in the world. Act like it. You want

Ashanti Abdullah (35:30.478)
be fair. And then you want to kill it. Yeah. Bottom line. I don't care if it's a speaker on a stick. Beat that shit up. Get your name on the t -shirt. Get your name on the poster. Get your name on the wall. mean, there's the crowd. There's the crowd that you kill for and all of that. But these cats, they got 300 shows they're doing a year. Why you? Why are they going to pay attention to you? You know what I mean? That's a big part of it. Because when you show

how you are, how you your impression and how you leave the place. On those, like when we first started headlining, I made everybody clean the green room afterwards. I was like, you know, just put everything in the trash. You don't gotta scrub shit down or nothing like that, but leave this place clean. If something's broke, try to fix it. Be mindful. It's crazy how far that will go. Like just treat it like it's your homie's house.

or not like it's your homie's house. Cause some people be hating on their homies and be fucking their shit up. Treat it like it's your auntie's house. Yeah. There you go. Treat it like it's your auntie's house. You know, I, I get made fun of, like I've fixed like doorknobs and shit in green rooms. So like, I just, I want to leave that place and, and make people remember that we love this. Yeah. How are you still bumping? How are you still, cause longevity is hard.

Yeah, longevity is hard. I don't give a lot of effort into it now these days, which, you know, I definitely need to change. I just have a call later today with someone that like wants to help me with my social media stuff. Yeah. But it's like, like I was saying, we used to stand out there for hours after the show. And that's the only time that we would piss people off in the venue. We would have to pay extra fees, right? Securities grumpy, you know, da da da da da da da. Because I would sit there and I would not only just shake hands, take a picture, but I have full on conversations.

with anybody that would wait in line for however long they wanted. And I did that for 10 years. And I didn't think anything of it. I knew it was important. I knew it boasted merch sales just from the business side, but I also knew that it was making connections with people because the music is doing something, right? When that record came out, when Together Apart came out,

Ashanti Abdullah (37:55.944)
something happened, right? And that was the first record that I made with the intention to just like, okay, I signed a deal, right? My first record deal ever. My only record deal ever. They need a record. Boom. And I sat down and wrote a record, bro. It wasn't like a bunch of songs that I had. I sat down and I wrote a record.

However, wherever I was emotionally and mentally at that time, it did something, man. That music resonated. I listen back to that record and I'm like, some of this is kind of corny. I get why. I remember I got my fader right up. No, pitchfork. Pitchfork review. And the dude, it's like he didn't even listen to my music. He did his shit on me, man. He looked at a picture of me and was like, don't break.

I'm gonna break this bitch down into nine different pieces. I'm gonna break him down into a combo meal and serve him up. And he did, dude. And I remember I was pissed and I reached out to him on Twitter. I was like, what the fuck? And he's like, you don't like it? I was like, fuck you. I was like, you live in New York. I live in New York. I hope I see you. And he's like, yeah.

I was like man, you didn't even listen to the record. He's like, yeah, fuck your record. Yeah. All right fair enough And then I realized I'm not making music it took me a while, but I'm not making music for them I've never really made music that I think is industry standard I've never gotten Big placements. I've never gotten you know any major breakout success, but I have a very

steady, consistent grind of music that relates with normal people. Now, is that gonna be background in your gym? Hell no. No. mean, but shoot, this is like, bro, I was once again, bro, shout out to you, kudos to you. I showed up and was like, oh, oh shit. Oh shit. This motherfucker still out here cracking, bro. Oh shit. Yeah, and they're singing those songs. I haven't put a record out since 2019, dude.

Ashanti Abdullah (40:14.766)
That shit was tripping me out, dude. I was like, damn, damn. And the fans were cool. I mean, let's be real. I'm like, I'm an asshole when it comes to this shit. I've been around it forever. I've been doing it for a long time and I'll be hating on everything. Yeah. I walked in ready to hate on every fan in there and I was like, nah, these people are chill. I can't even hate on them like Let's see. vanilla ice cream embodied in a rap show tonight.

And I was like, yo, this is dope, man. I was just excited to be there. Thanks for having me come out too. man. Yeah, it was great to see. was great to see. you're touring, like, how much are you touring now? I mean, you seem to be touring a decent amount these days. So my focus is, and this is kind of weird, but I'm gonna say it anyways. I was working at a venue that was also a recording studio for a while.

which put me around younger people. I don't mean this in a creepy way, I just mean like I don't kick it with 23 year olds, right? Like we don't have anything in common, I don't go to the same bar, you know, like I drink at the old dude bar now, I'm 40. Like if there's not like a half broken TV and like peanuts, I'm probably not there. So I hadn't really been around like younger people like

Right? Like, you know, like my fans and stuff like that. you know, I'm not around them for eight hours a day or something like that. Yeah. And that was something I got into during Covid and, I missed music. So when they offered me the position, I was like, yeah, this sounds cool. I got free studio time in this wonderful studio that I got to run and operate. And that's great. But I remember I don't know what I was wearing, but one of the kids was like, it's kind of Y2K of you. I was like, huh?

What'd say? And she's like, Y2K. And I was like, like the thing where everyone thought the world was going to shut down. And she was she was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, Y2K was a moment in time. It whole fucking thing, bro. Where everyone, you know, the clock was going to reset. I was high on acid. I broke into a pawn shop and stole a Fender Squire bass. I put my whole life in line to steal a hundred dollar bass guitar.

Ashanti Abdullah (42:36.888)
fucking Chinese bass guitar. Yeah, Piece of shit. high on acid thinking the security cameras, nothing's gonna work. And she was like, what the hell? No, it's a fashion thing. you know, calling back to that time. And I was like, and then I started paying attention. It's like, everything from that is cool now. And like even sound. You listen to music. Now we want that.

what we've spent so long getting away from, we want that low fidelity. It's to the point, lo -fi, that is one of the most popular stream genres. It's crazy. If you want to print millions of streams, that is the place to go. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, why are we going back to these old methods, right? To yield new success. And I was like, that's because that's what time does. It's like,

It's circular all the time. like dough, It like flips over on itself. So I'm going, I'm trying to find myself, I'm trying to put myself back in that mind state of when I started. Yeah. And there's a few things that I want to do and that's, let's get those fans. Yeah. You know, let's, let's, let's work with other artists that have different fans, but yet similar, right? Similar, yeah. Can, my weight work with them?

So I'm doing more support tours where for 10 years I wasn't doing any support tours, right? Because the money is not there. Yeah. But that's a short sighted way to look at things. But also you I mean, you kind of glossed over the fact that the fact that you could do headlining tours. That's not easy, bro. I don't know. realize how hard it is to do a headlining tour because, you might have two markets or you might have 500 people show up or 300 people show

I mean, every artist that I've worked with, when they're brand new, if I'm working with them brand new, they're always like, I want to get on the road. And I'm like, cool, who's going to buy your tickets? I have had this conversation this week. Who's going to buy your tickets? Yeah, it's not... People just don't understand. Here's the other thing. I know cats that have millions of monthly listeners and can't put 100 people Can't sell a fucking... Can't sell a ticket to save their life. And that is something...

Ashanti Abdullah (45:00.64)
that I realized doesn't correlate. I mean, it does to a degree, right? a degree. It's something you can use to sell yourself. It's something you can use to get agents and all that stuff. But it doesn't always work. And then that is calling back to, what used to work? How do we get people back in the room? You know, and then I was like, what was really inspiring for me back then? And it was

happening with my community, working with people that, you know, experiencing new things musically and like, so that's been a huge part for me, like the music that I'm working on, I'm working on with like some younger cats to see like, but they're not rap producers, they're like music majors and shit, you know? Right, right, gotcha. So like, we're doing some some interesting stuff. I want to play in front of different fan bases. So, you know, I'm doing, I'm trying to at least do like one or two of these like reggae

shows, reggae tours a year. Because those seem to be working really well. There's money in it right now, man. It's a lot of money in it. But more so, it's adding to the fan base that I have, right? So let's talk Denver. Big market for me always has been generally for most artists, Denver is a massive music city. It

before you're looking at LA and New York, you should try to lock down Denver. If I gotta be honest. Exactly. Yeah, not totally. and New York isn't a fan city. That's an industry city. Industry people want guest list. They drink your green room drive. They don't call you back. It's fuck it, right? It's places like Denver, Minneapolis, Chicago. Salt Lake City is a big one for me. Who would have thought?

It's New Mexico, dude. Albuquerque, super big hip hop town. It's finding where fans are, finding where your fans are, catering to it. The difference about Denver is your fans are there. Most likely your fans are in Denver. It's a highly coveted and celebrated music city. So, you know, let's look at that.

Ashanti Abdullah (47:25.326)
I'm gonna make more money putting a hundred people in a room as a headliner than being an opener for someone that puts 1 ,500 people in Thousand percent. I'm gonna do it, right? I'm gonna make more money as the 100 people in the room. But how do I grow that? How do I grow the 100 to 200 to 300? Because if, next time it might be 90 people, right? It doesn't grow, sure, you put on a great show, hopefully,

100 % of those people come back and we know that that is not realistic, right? Because most of the time there's tag alongs, there's other people, there's like people giving you a shot and they didn't like it, you know, that shit happens a lot. So let's be more realistic and say 50%, right? So let's say you played, 100 people showed up, you should expect 50 people to show up next time.

You should be confident that 50 people will show up. You know for 100 How do you build that more you eat a little shit you go on tour with other people you try to break out into some different fan bases that aren't too far away from what you're doing Because the other thing about a fan base is their community. Yeah, so you don't want to you know, you You don't want it to be so incredibly different, you know, it's not gonna be

Wu Tang fans and you know, hardcore death metal fans in the same room. That shit don't really work all the time. So I don't know if you heard the first episode yet, but I was talking to Raka and he was talking about how they were playing this massive fucking festival. it like a rock festival? was in Poland. It was a rock festival and they're and they're like, yeah, we're gonna put you on the main stage.

No, no, no, no. I thought we were gonna. He's like trying to talk a minute. You DJ said, what did you do? I play the parking lot. He said it worked out. But yeah, he was like, those are scary moments. Yeah, they were scary moments. Man, I toured with T -Pain and I was like, what am I fucking doing here, bro? What am I doing here? That was that shit was out of pocket. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done was tour with T -Pain. The Warped Tour.

Ashanti Abdullah (49:44.758)
was easier than touring with T -Pain. That was crazy. So it's like, finding those people, bringing it back and just remembering the things that I did back then built a foundation that still exists. Because we built it right. So let's stop focusing so much on all this new stuff. Because you start adding, you start poking holes in your house that was already fine.

My fuck around and get some problems. Yeah. So totally. It's more about figuring out how to strengthen the thing that we've already built and maintain. I know that I'm not going to be some big, huge breakout. You know, I'm never going to have my Macklemore money. Yeah. You know, I'm never going to have a $60 ,000 car or a brand new built house or anything like that. Like, I know my place in this.

I just want to make sure that I can continue to do things the way that I want to do, provide for my family. And if I can't, then I'll just go get a job and I'll tour whenever I can. But I want to be able to make this music the way that I want. And I will adjust to this modern landscape. I will do that. I do realize that this is the way that people consume music now. I'm going do that.

Why are all these new cats reaching out to me to ask me how to tour? So let's, yeah. What is, what is, what's Grieve's job in the world? I feel like you're a landscaper shirt off. Dude, you should see me mow my lawn, Like a lobster with some boots on. I feel like you're a landscaper shirts off. I could see you as a bar owner, probably something like

Yeah, I could do that. you know, I was doing like production management for a little bit, like post COVID, but that was just like some, you know, just to kill some time and be around music again. But I don't know if that's me. I wouldn't, I don't want to be dealing with other people's shit, you know? We're gonna But I have always said I want a life in music, right? So I don't have to be the one on stage or whatever. Like if I could contribute to other people's music

Ashanti Abdullah (52:06.944)
or be around it or, you know, in a position, you if I gotta go work for Amazon in the Amazon music department, that's what I I think you're set up, mean, you know, was talking to Raka about this. It's funny who I've aligned myself with. It makes sense. mean, being a manager, you tend to spend more time around artists that have those qualities. Do you know what I mean? Like, and you're of course, you're around all managers. So I'm just thinking about the people who are even, you know, guests on the show.

for now, they're generally people that are either artists that managed or was an agent or do that kind of work or they're people that are on the management side. I mean, I think you got plenty. This will always be your life. As much as I tried to leave this shit. Yeah, man. Here I know. I know that shit. I know that hustle. Here I am, bro. Sometimes I get so unhappy because of the hustle. And I'm like, man, I just I maybe I just

don't have it anymore. Yeah. Right. Like not not the ability to make music, but just the the hustle for this business is like. And then I was like, I ain't really hustling that hard. You like you did your hustling and now you're like you got to look up and be like, man, it's kind of fly, bro. Like I'm going to yell out here. You know what mean? Yeah, man. Yeah. It's like touring. You know, when I had my son, I was like, no, that's it. I'm not you know, I don't want to be away.

You know, this is the first person I ever met that has the same blood as me. I want to be there always. You know, I want to look in your eyes every day. I want to be there always. And then I realized this job allows me to do that. Yeah, I got to be away. I got to be away for a month or a fuck it, even two. Then I'm home for 10. Right. Right. So it's like I overall I get more time with my son. And I know people everywhere.

so that's another cool thing. It's like, let's travel. All right. I'm going to go. Okay. I'm going to go to her Australia. Come meet me after the shows and let's, you know, go stay on an island or go, you know, I got a homie here. I got a homie in the mountains. Got a homie. Let's go. That's the best man. All the, all the people you meet, all the people along the way, all the funny stories. I mean, it is kind of the best. beat, you know, something I haven't touched on yet on the show too, either is like having a spouse that really understands.

Ashanti Abdullah (54:33.558)
what all that means is crazy. I'm technically out of the hardcore day -to -day management side and obviously founded Turnwheel and that's mainly, that's my day -to -day now. Which is very inspiring by the way. That's something of like taking shit that you've been doing and reinventing it and like building something really positive for yourself is like.

the sea, there's more than things that have always been in front of us. Right. It's really inspiring. I appreciate it. But I'm realizing this shit got me traveling more than more. yeah. You know what? You're a businessman. Like, my God. I'm like all over the fucking place. And it's great. I mean, I've got a great spouse. mean, when I'm like, yo, yo, I got to I got to leave tomorrow. Back in like a few days, she's like, yeah, we're up. You know what I mean? Like, no big deal.

blah, Yeah. My short is like, all right, but you're paying the extra fees of the daycare so we can stay longer. I'm like, that's fine. That's fine. I get it. I owe you an apology. I was in Seattle like three weeks ago, but I can't. So the reason why I came up there is so CEO of our company, Sherry, I needed to have some face time with him. So it was like a quick 24 hour hit and I didn't want to, I didn't, you know, it just, my bad. I apologize.

I probably wouldn't have come down. But I should have at least been like, y 'all, I'm in town. You know what I mean? But it was like, I'm just gonna see you hanging out at the Pike's Place market taking cute photos with somebody else. All right. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, it was quick. It was a quick in and out. if you give me a much try to wrap up here, but let give me give me give me some crazy shit on tour.

You got some crazy stories, but give me like one or two, like pretty funny or crazy or whatever they are. Crazy, funny. mean, every day is, you know, it's not the answer you want, but every day is pretty crazy and funny. Touring is really fun. As hard as it is, like touring is a really fun job. And you're around some pretty interesting characters a lot of the time. And you find yourself in precarious You mean like Dan or? Yeah, yeah.

Ashanti Abdullah (56:46.668)
Like Danny, he's a pretty interesting guy. Like, so weird, you know? Like, in any other situation, would I be rolling around with that dude? Like, yeah, dude. Like, it's, music is tight the way that that works out. For sure. You know, I think about it, it's like, something crazy happened. was like driving through a blizzard. You know, like, it's like pretty tame these days. I've, you know, done shit that I probably don't want to talk about on here.

Don't worry about that part. You know, back in like the party day, nothing that's like, you know, morally wrong or nothing, but just like, you know, I've done some drunk crazy shit with some drunk crazy assholes. Yeah. I mean, I think that people, you know, I'm trying to, a big part of this also is to just like open up the mystique of touring, not only for people who are on the side that are touring, but the people that actually go to the shows as well. And I think one thing I talked about in one episode was the fact that,

Man, sometimes right after shows, it's just eating sandwiches in hotel rooms, man. It's just not that exciting. Yeah, I've told cats where they're like, what's it like? I was like, all right, first thing you do when you wake up, go sit in your closet for seven hours. It's exactly what's Go sit in your closet for seven hours and don't do shit. Maybe eat a bag of chips. Yeah, yeah. And then that is primarily your day on tour. And then go time.

And then pretend like you didn't just do that and like turn, turn the charm on. That's another thing. There's no bad days on tour. Right. And I don't mean that there aren't there most definitely are. People don't want to hear it. They don't care. When you show up, people paid for an experience. They want their experience. And I understand that. Yeah. That's a huge part of touring. It's a huge part of why people are on drugs and alcohol and stuff is to eliminate.

the day you just had. Yeah, I mean, I've said this before, like, there's two sides to it. There's the side of I went I went and this is my day, man. This is my one time, bro. I get to see this person. I love all that. Then there's the side of we did this 34 other times right before this. We're here to work. We're here for work. And that's all kind of kind of meld together. So I don't think we realize how hard it is to put on the party without actually being the part. You know what I mean? Like, yeah,

Ashanti Abdullah (59:08.426)
You can't party every night. That's not a thing you can do. I remember I showed up somewhere in Colorado. I have this very like strong memory of like getting out of the van and there were some people that were waiting there for us to get there. They're like fans or something like that. We had a long day driving through the mountains and you know tired. Everyone's still in sweatpants you know like

No one's put together, breath all musty and shit, you know, like, and they, they were in show mode, right? And they, like, we had to load in, I think we were late, like, there's just like a lot of things and like, no one was in the mood and everyone, you know, super cord, like everyone's cordial. Everyone's like, yeah, what up? Like, can't do this right now. Like, gotta go in, gotta do this. And then disappeared. Didn't come back out, you know, just went to

Yeah. Went straight to Twitter where people go to complain and just started talking shit. And they're like, yo, fuck that guy. Like, what an asshole. Like, you can't like take any time. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure we took some time to tell you that we're not going to kick it with you. Like, you know, we got a job to do. Like I also like, let me be a human. Yeah. When doors are open.

I'll be that party. I'm for you. Come on, man. Like I'm in my sweatpants. Like I haven't showered yet. I just don't feel like I haven't even talked to these fucking guys. And I've been in the damn band with them all day. Like, let me just chill for a second. You know, didn't say that to him, but it was like people don't understand that. And I get it. Yeah. But that is a hard part.

So, you know, if you see people that seem like they're struggling, like on the tours and shit, like take into account that like they might be struggling with their own identity. Like trying to figure out like, is the real me even valuable? Because a lot of the times when you're just being your normal ass self, people get mad at you. Like if you're walking somewhere, you know, like you're out to dinner with your wife and your kid and somebody comes up and interrupts your, you

Ashanti Abdullah (01:01:33.664)
shit and wants to take over your moment. And you just like, you know, take a picture and you know, okay, yeah, thanks, man. But like, you don't want to sit and talk forever. And you're the asshole, you like there's like things like that, like that really fuck with people because you know, you feel like, just the regular ass wake up every day means not enough. Yeah, I gotta be this all the time, which I can't be because it isn't, you know, that'll fuck with you, man.

Yeah, man. So take care of these. Take care of your favorite artists, man. You see them out there allowing some humanity, you know? I mean, it's I'm from the I'm on the other side of it. No one knows me except for if they they should. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Or it could be bad if you know who I am, because it means I'm fucking coming to kick you out or tell you no or some other. shit. He doesn't look friendly at all.

It's they don't have what a manager or whatever has when you have the, I can smell the walk away right now. I can smell them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or the like, you know what I mean? Like I see what's going on right now. It's it's it's it's tough. Yeah. You see you see artists trying to sneak through the crowd because there's no bathroom backstage and you immediately scream as loud as you can.

What's up, dude? You're like shitting your pants trying to get to the bathroom and you just like made it so much worse. And then you follow him to the bathroom. You can't let that sucker go with that homie sitting out there. Now you're pinching it off and it's just it's all bad. Just let us live, man. Yeah, yeah. I got before we get out of here, anything you want to talk about? I've often. Found myself, you know, I

most of the people listening to this are, you know, they're listening because they know who you are, they know who I am, or they're interested in, you know, probably what we're talking about, about the business and stuff like that. And you can listen to these things all day long. You could take as much knowledge and experience as you want from it. That doesn't mean it's going to work. I don't really think there's an exact answer to any of the questions you may have unless they're very like,

Ashanti Abdullah (01:03:50.252)
logistical things like, you know, the cable goes here. Let art be art, man. You know, like, don't, you don't have to make something because you see it work. All of that at some point was something that wasn't working, you know, that that found its way into an audience that liked it. Authenticity, expression.

you know, understanding yourself within your own art, I think is probably the best advice I could give to anybody, you know, and maintaining that throughout, you know, like we talked earlier, showing up, you know, just, if you like this, then fucking act like it, you know, like show up and be nice. Like you, if you don't get to do this,

you're gonna have to go do something else. Are you gonna act like this when you're doing that? Hell When you're mowing the lawn out there? hell no you're not. When you're a fucking, you know, when that's what you're doing. Act like you are doing the thing that you've always wanted to do even if it's not the way that you thought you'd be doing it. Because that is how this works, you know, it's never how you want it to be. But you can find yourself in situations that

And that's just part of weather in this storm. That's what separates the 20 year careers with the two year careers. That's what establishes greatness. It's doing you, not doing what is currently working for other people. That's how you disappear. So just, I don't know.

Think about that. Think about if things aren't working for you, is it everybody else keeping you from what you're looking for or are you not really doing what you're supposed to be doing right now? think that is probably the first step. And then, you know, I think opening yourself up to criticism and talking with people and understanding, like that's how I learned, man. Getting chopped down by Randy in a venue was

Ashanti Abdullah (01:06:12.886)
Instead of me being, fuck that guy. Clearly, I don't know what I'm doing and this is how I'm going to learn. like, you know, you got to be able to take that if you want to be good. You don't necessarily have to take that when it comes down to your art. Yeah. But I think, you know, as far as the processes of executing things that you need to do in this business, you should definitely be open for criticism. Open. Yeah. Open ears, man.

It's been done a times. Yeah, it's been done a couple times. been done a couple times. And it'll be done a few more times. With that said, what's like the one thing that you would leave people with? I am stoked, man. So it's like, you know, you think about things when you're on the road and you're like, man, why has it got to be so goddamn hard? Why is there no resources? You know, like, it also shows how nichey this business is.

There's not a lot of companies other than like master tour or whatever like offering anything like this. And the fact that you're bringing things that, you know, I'm self -managed now. So I hate closing out. I hate it, dude. I hate spreadsheets. I hate all that shit. You know, so.

And I've been looking for different things. Like I jumped around to like app venue and stuff because I like the record keeping. I can't figure out their bookkeeping thing for the life of me. I don't know why I'm always just wrong. Dude, I'm my cash on hand is always, I got to, if you work at app venue and you are listening to this right now, will you get a hold of me and tell me why the hell that number keeps changing? When ain't a damn thing happening? Let me know what cash on hand really is and why I keep fucking this up because I don't understand.

Well, you know, I that idea was like, can we just have a place? All the merch lives here. Here's all like, can I just reference these sheets instead of me making sheets every day and putting them in a drop box and everything? You creating a touring solution that does all of that for you and and not only just taking what you

Ashanti Abdullah (01:08:34.493)
a previously existing platform has and making it prettier and slightly different and better. You added things

or hard, like the finance part, you know? Tour costs a lot of money. To headline is a lot of money. If you're gonna do it right, right? Like if you are really doing touring, if you're just showing up with your clothes and a plastic bag and you know, if you're just, if you're clearly winging it, then yeah, sure, you show up, you spend zero dollars, you can sleep in your rental car, I don't care.

We don't do that. You know, like we're showing up with production lights. You know, we're in rental vans. We're in hotels. We're grown ass men. Everyone gets a bed. Like this is how it happens. know, how much merch do you need for the tour? OK, there's ten thousand dollars. You have that. Do you just have 10 K that you can hope you sell in t -shirts to bring back? Yeah, like it's it's a it's a lot of money down. Like it's twenty, thirty thousand dollars before you even hit the road.

And we're floating that on cards, right? We're floating that on, we're turning that into airline miles so that it loosens our impact for the next one or something like that. We're doing it on gas cards. We're doing all this shit to try to figure it out. But you figured out a way to, you you get all your deposits, everything, because normally, you know, your agents are getting your deposits. They're collecting interest on it. That's sitting there. You have figured out a way

We're not figured out a way, but you've proposed a way that's like, can we just make all this money work for the artists? Like the deposit money just work for them now instead of the agent holding on to it as payment at the end. Like, know, when you start to make those next inroads from like your plan, like a $10 ,000 short two to $5 ,000 now and all that. Well, yeah, it's going to cost more to tour. So we need that money upfront.

Ashanti Abdullah (01:10:40.802)
You know what I mean? Yeah, you're five racks for me. Yeah, and you're five racks for three months for me on one show. I could. That's my VIP material. Yeah. Right. Like that's the posters and the laminates and the merch item. You know, that's hotel money. That's you know, that's me not having to risk my credit by floating. Yeah. You know, I put it all on the card, but then I pay it back with my advance. Right. That'd be great.

So allowing artists to do that not only gives them control of having everything in one space, but let's be real. You know what no one ever talks about on these podcasts or Instagram videos?

It's finances, man. No one ever sits an artist down and tells them how to manage their money or how much money these things are going to cost. It's expensive. Or how you could do it better or like anything. There are no financial services for artists. You just got to find an accountant or CPA that is familiar with the way this works. And that's normally coming through your lawyer. So now you're spending even more money. Like, why is there no financial resources for people that are making shit?

Loaded money. It's crazy to me. That's what I would do. I had, let's start a new business. So it's a big deal for me to, a big, a big part of it was a lot of artists would be like, I want to go do this. And I would be, I'd have to put together something to show them how to do it. They show them how much it would actually cost or whatever the case is. Now this is all here, baby. You can see all the numbers. can see what's up. And I'm excited for, you know, we're in turn well beta right

Turnwheel Beta is pretty much done. We are now, we're about to move into the Alpha phase where we're issuing cards and all of that. So people can actually use our, everything's in our system. When they go out and they need to spend to get something that goes against their budget, blah, blah, blah. just spending your tour revenue there. when you settle at the end and be like, there's my green, man. There's actual money, right? That's exactly what I said I was gonna take home. If I keep to this budget, that's exactly what I'm gonna take home. And that's another part, man. Budgeting is a huge part of touring.

Ashanti Abdullah (01:12:50.464)
It's a massive part of tour. A lot of people just get out there and go and don't really think about the, you mean, you know, then of course, I'm adulted for like the large, you know, for you, you're already ready to go. Like, you know, what's up? Like now you have a place where everything lives. You can hit one button and settle out. And then on top of it. love that. Yeah. And then on top of it, on top of it, you can you can refer back to all this shit. You know what mean? Like everything's there for you. But yeah. And now, like the next step is getting

You know, I think any artist is going to be like, hell yeah. It's getting everyone else to participate. Right. So maybe that's what this podcast is for. Right. For for people to know that like artists want this. Artists want ease, man. Like and beyond like the settling and the finances and stuff like look, shit is chaotic, man. Like, I don't know where I am most of the time. And I just like it's nice to have everything laid

I could click a little button, it's like, all right, there's the directions to the hotel. There's this boom boom boom. Like, is there anything to eat around here? Like, like hotels are getting more expensive. Finding places is frustrating. It takes me weeks to book accommodations for tours. Best prices on rental vans. Come on, man. It's like whatever bandico says you're going to pay is what you're fucking paying. Exactly.

Cause you can't rent like a real tour vehicle from like budget or anything like that. And if you go and buy one, you're a fucking fool because now you're just like, you're, you're risking your show on your own vehicle. If you rent, you know, there's some liability there, right? And you get a new vehicle expenses that you incur where are going to be covered by somebody else. You shouldn't, you know, put that liability on somebody else. But you know, having access to those resources is

That's hard, man. That's the majority of the phone calls I get today are like these younger artists just being like, where do I go for this? Who does this? Do know any tour managers that aren't fucking $300 a day? Do know this? Do you know that? How do I get lights? know, but in it and in it, can you build me an in -ear rig? What is this? What is that? It's, you know, the resources. And you've created an app that once all those things are put together, everything is working. He can just tour, man. You can just go on tour. That's the point.

Ashanti Abdullah (01:15:15.854)
Click and go man. That's the point. You get it. Yeah. 1000 % 1000 % I'm from that world. So that's that's why we're here right now. Yo, I will see you soon for sure. I really appreciate you jumping on the show bro.

I'll talk to you soon, my friend. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you, Cheers, brother. And that's a wrap for today's episode of The Loadout. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite podcast platform. Follow me on social media at probably Ashanti or at Turnwill on all platforms. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep buying those tickets. Peace.