Episode 8 - Rob Sonic
Welcome to the loadout. I'm your host, Ashanti Abdulla. In each week, we take you behind the scenes of the live music industry From touring tips and industry insights to candid conversations with artists, managers, and music professionals, we uncover the stories and strategies that make live performances unforgettable. Whether you're an artist, a tour manager, or just a live music enthusiast, this podcast is your backstage pass to the world of touring and live events. On today's version of the loadout, I'm joined by none other than hip hop legend, Rob Sonic.
Speaker 1:From his groundbreaking solo work to his collaborations with Aesop Rock and Harold Larry Malon, Rob has been a force in the underground hip hop scene for years. We're diving into his journey, his thoughts on touring, and what keeps him inspired after all this time. Rob Sonic, Bananas Foster, Bobby Freedom. Don't they call you the purveyor of premium small batch hip hop?
Speaker 2:Some people do. Only me, though. Though. I call them something.
Speaker 1:How you been, bro? It's been a minute.
Speaker 2:It has been a minute, man. I've been alright. You know? Dealing. Dealing.
Speaker 2:You know? I'm I'm getting up there in here, so, you know, I'm I'm, I'm good for the most part. You know, can't complain. I'm here. I'm breathing.
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm breathing.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. You're back on the west or you're out on the west coast now from the east coast a little bit. Kinda in between, you were saying?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Split time between, you know, the East Coast, New York, and DC. I'm from DC originally.
Speaker 1:Oh, gotcha.
Speaker 2:So, but, you know, lived most of my life in the Bronx. But, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ace is still up Ace is still up there. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's on the he's on we're in the same city, so we're we're going
Speaker 1:to call up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's what's up, man. That's what's up. My bad. We, we we we had a little bit of talking before we got recording, so let's just get into the real business of it. What like, you you started rapping at age 12.
Speaker 1:Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah. About 11 or 12. Yeah.
Speaker 1:11 or 12. What were those influences? Well, like, what got this kid from from DC that moved to New York? I assume it was the move to New York. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2:No. I was still in DC at that time. When I when I first started writing rhymes, I was still in DC, and it was just basically that everybody and, you know, everybody in my school was doing it, and it was just, like, breaking and and rhyming and just hip hop in general. The culture was, was coming up. And it wasn't, it was, it was just, you know, everybody was, everybody who I affiliated with and everybody I associated with was doing it.
Speaker 2:And, you know, it was it was it was new and it was something that that we just wanted to do. And in all the all the ways, you know what I'm saying? Like all the elements and and all the all the the the the ways to express ourselves was it was just hip hop, and it was just that's where it was coming from. I guess the early stuff was probably, obviously, Sugar Hill stuff and and but it was a it was a little bit little bit deeper than that. Like, it was because it wasn't really available like that back then.
Speaker 2:It was like hours on the radio here and there, but it it wasn't when it first started and and people were first starting to embrace rap, it wasn't out there like it is now. It's a big, huge, you know, biggest music in the world now, probably. Outside of Definitely. Outside of maybe country, but it wasn't like that. It was a real counterculture when it started when it came, when it when it came out.
Speaker 2:And and there's a reason for that is, you know, obviously, you know, the people that, you know, the the just the people making it and the the environment it comes from, you know, is Yeah. That's just what it is. It's just people doing that and that was the, you know, my associates were and friends were all people that did it and they were like, yo, just, you know, just be down, Just just be doing what all my friends did. You know?
Speaker 1:Exactly. Wait. So you picked you picked rhyming because you're a shit breakdancer or what? How did that end up?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But well, I went through all of them. I went through all of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think we all did. That's why I ended up being a DJ because I was like, I can't fucking rap. This I suck. Like, what?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that that was basically it. The gist of it was that basically I I saw I started off, I guess, breaking.
Speaker 2:And that was just because, like, you know, that's that was just so big at the time. It it just swept across the you know, it was, like, why, 82, 83 when breaking was, like, popping. And I was, like, 10 years old. So it was like, you know, I'd try to do it, but I wasn't really you know, I was kind of a fat kid, so I couldn't really I I I had some moves, though. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:I had I had some things, but when you got into, like you know, they they were dudes who were, like, really, really good at it. You know, like to and to be good at break dance, it's an Olympic sport now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Like break dance is just hard, man. Yeah. Like that shit is straight up gymnastics. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Like like I saw dudes, you know, when I was, like, that age, and I have to I'll do my little thing at home in the mirror, you know, try to get my little shuffle, my little 6 step, or or a little with you know, knee spin or whatever backspin going. And then you see dudes who are really good at breakdancing, and you're like, oh, I can't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Not even close, bro.
Speaker 2:That dude is doing, like, aerials and shit. They're doing, like, they're doing, like, shit you do on a pommel horse on a floor.
Speaker 1:I mean, pop master Fable doesn't even do all of that. He's a pop master, and he's still way more than I could ever even dream of.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I I I had a little little wave and everything here and there, and, but I just wasn't you know, it it was really you know, when I was in a couple of crews, you know, the local crews and battle some dudes, and we did the battle thing, you know, the the breakdance battle stuff. And I realized then that I was like, after, like, couple of battles, and I was just like, nah.
Speaker 2:I'm not really holding anybody down. So so so dudes were like, okay. So maybe try DJing, you know, like, hold the box. You know? Right.
Speaker 2:Because they you know, they you still gotta be there in case, like, somebody gets injured because
Speaker 1:you can get injured.
Speaker 2:You can get injured and break these battles.
Speaker 1:You know what
Speaker 2:I'm saying? Like, you can the the shit that people are doing is that you can break an ankle or some shit, you know, or nap. For sure. You know? I mean, I I had a suicide at one point, which is like a flip, you know, where you just basically land on the small of your back and feet first.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't it's sort of like a wrestling kind of thing, like a wrestling flip. You know? And, like, I just think about it sometimes. I'm like, I coulda broke every I coulda broke my spine just doing that.
Speaker 1:You know? Like, I don't even know how I quit, I quit skateboarding about 3 years ago because I broke my last bone. Yeah. And I'm, like, in my forties, and I was like, nah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's say for
Speaker 2:me no more. No more. No. I mean, yeah, you gotta go all out in both of those things. You just go all out, and kids just have that energy.
Speaker 2:You know? So I had
Speaker 1:to Sorry. No. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:So I was good in that respect. Like, I I was I was always, you know, I loved it so much and, was into it so much that I was ready to do ready to break break whatever if I had to.
Speaker 1:I had a similar similar story. I, I wanted to do everything. I wanted to do graffiti. Well, I'm a shit artist. I can't pave a straight line.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm definitely not I'm a dancer, but not that kind of dancer.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I couldn't rap to save my life. Yep. And so I became a DJ. And then every I mean, people who know me, they know that, like, over time, I was good enough. And then over time, everyone else got better than me.
Speaker 1:And I was like, cool. Well, I guess I'll just book the shows and do all this other stuff because that's what I'm good at. So that's how I ended up in that side of it. You know?
Speaker 2:Right. Right. So it's it's not it's not unsimilar to that. You know what I'm saying? Like, that is ex that is essentially what happened.
Speaker 2:It just it just, I guess, so, you know, they were like, I'll just hold the box or whatever while we do while we do our battles or whatever. And then I tried to DJ for a little while and I just couldn't scratch. Right? Because but, yeah, I've always had, like, this disconnect and it's always caused me problems throughout my my musical career is like because I produce and I I can make beats and stuff, but my left hand is just
Speaker 1:I I can't get
Speaker 2:it to do what I want. So if you're a DJ, you you gotta have both that ambidextrous thing going on where you can work the fader and and scratch. So I think I got a bubble scratch back when, like, DST was like, you know, the, you know, obviously coming out and killing shit. But I was like, I got, like, a bubble scratch once, and that was that was the extent of my DJ career. But but back but back then, it wasn't like people had, like, direct drive turntables even.
Speaker 1:Nah. Like, you had, like, belt driven. Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like,
Speaker 1:Belt driven. For making it work.
Speaker 2:Dude, you had to forget it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's right. Making it work. Yeah. Not just for Except for, you know, that that makes me think of, Eric being Rakim.
Speaker 1:I ain't no joke. Mhmm. That's gotta be the worst display of scratching of all time. And then I was talking to somebody and they were like, yo, Eric B was the drug dealer, B. He wasn't really in the band.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? Rakim was just giving him a shot. You know what I'm saying? Like
Speaker 2:I mean, I I lived in Queens for a while. I'm not I don't know about the the history
Speaker 1:of that.
Speaker 2:That is, you know? But I don't I don't I don't really talk about things like that, but, you know, I'm saying, like, you know, it's it's it's he Eric b was, you know, he was he was in there.
Speaker 1:He was the man, bro.
Speaker 2:He was
Speaker 1:the man. Yeah. Early early like Eventually, I mean, just
Speaker 2:to just to wrap it up. Yeah. I just I I was tried brass and I I had no can control. And then I started rapping and and I could actually hold the beat better than a lot of people. So
Speaker 1:Right. That's dope, man. Were there any, like, particular moments or experiences that, like, like, significantly shaped what your sound was gonna be kinda early on? Or I'm sure you've probably progressed over the years. It's been different things.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:Yes. Craft work, I remember. Craft work, soul Sonic Force, specifically, planet rock, play at your own risk. I've I always forget who would I forget who that is, but and that sucks because that's like one of my I still play that shit to this day. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And, a lot of electro shit. And Mantronix was was huge for me in the beginning. Just in in the early sound of Def Jam. When, you know, when Def Jam came out, what was it like? Tila Wright.
Speaker 2:Right? It was the first Yeah. Def Jam. I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, Yeah. Yeah. That that, like, hard sort of it it wasn't the most rhythmic thing. You know what I'm saying? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And and that kinda that kinda had, like, real that shit that had, like, that edge that was kinda busted and kinda like it felt very, like, rebellious and and and pumped. So Mhmm. That that was always what really spoke to me the most. Gotcha. That one I wasn't the happiest kid coming up.
Speaker 1:I feel you. I mean, I think that I mean yeah. I mean, that will definitely draw you to hip hop at the earlier days. Obviously, there was a bright, shiny reason for kids to for kids to add to it later on. But in the early days, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, hip hop was punk. Punk was hip hop. It was it was Yeah, man. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was it was all it was all just like, yeah, with, you know, the the voice of the voiceless. Right?
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like like, heads didn't really know, you know, we were just the youth of of the the eighties and shit. We're just like, what what are we supposed to do? Yeah.
Speaker 1:What are we supposed to do?
Speaker 2:Man and obviously crack and all that shit. Like Yeah. The fuckers are just like, yo, what are what are we supposed to do?
Speaker 1:I mean, as much as it annoys the shit out of me, I can't even be mad at, like, the, like, the the the teams and the people of this time and, like, what they're up to. No.
Speaker 2:You know
Speaker 1:what I mean? Because, like, there was always something. And, like, to be honest with you, some of the shit they're up to is, like, smarter. You know? And you're like, that's a smarter way to do that, actually.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, man. They they have so much more access to information than we do. True. You know what I'm saying? We were we were, like, you know, like, or whatever.
Speaker 2:What do you call it? Urban legends and shit. Yeah. Right? Like, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Like
Speaker 1:I heard this. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Like, don't put pop rocks in Coke.
Speaker 1:Right. Don't put You
Speaker 2:know what I'm saying? Now they just that's a that's like a challenge
Speaker 1:now. Right.
Speaker 2:Right. You know, they they I you know, there's there's obvious things that I'm like, that that's real dangerous for the for the culture. You know? Sure. But but how much of that is necessarily just what we've left them?
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That's that's what it that's what it comes down to, really. It's like Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you can't you can't really be like, nah. You know? Like, unless you, like, really did it. Like like, okay. This is, you know, I'm I I am the person that stood on business on on the for the community
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:For the kids and and but I wasn't thinking about that shit. And I'm sure a lot of our rappers wouldn't think about that shit when they get got on. No. You know? We're just rappers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You, how'd your experiences with, Sonic some and Hail Mary Malin shape your solo career?
Speaker 2:I learned a lot with Sonic some.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:With Sonic some, it was the the the Sonic some stuff was was interesting because I was coming at it from I had met Mike Ladd, and Mike Ladd sort of, you know, he he's sort of the dude. You know? And and and then I the poetry scene. And, I just wasn't at that point of years years years of trying to get on, I was like, man, I gotta do something different to sorta separate myself from me and my man. Like, the sonic sum was originally me and my rap partner.
Speaker 2:The Sonic sum that everybody knows it, that's not how it started. It started with me and this my man, Seams, rest in peace, from Corona Queens. And I was living in in East Elmhurst at the time, I think. Mhmm. And, we were just trying to do something a little different.
Speaker 2:You know? And and and it was it was still it was still, like, you know, it was still bars and everything, but but we we were trying to branch out a little bit and do just super creative stuff because we were both in the real heavy into jazz music. Mhmm. And, the the the sort of the process of being a jazz head is you had you go further into the backstory of because it's not it it's like the stars of jazz music. It's not like the stars of other shit.
Speaker 1:Right. You know what
Speaker 2:I'm saying? Like, these these are like these are like musicians, like like Mingus and and and, so many others, like, you know, Charlie Parker and, like, the backstory of those dudes, it's not it's not like this glamorous thing. It was
Speaker 1:just
Speaker 2:No. Not at all. Dudes who are just they're just ill characters. You know what I'm saying? Like like, ill by nature.
Speaker 2:Yep. So so that's we sorta wanted to go. We you don't wanna be that because that's like, these are greats. You know? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. It's like somebody wanting to be like, yes. Everybody would aspire to be Jimmy Hendrix or or Jimmy Page, but you're not gonna you know?
Speaker 1:You don't wanna be you don't wanna live that life. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we kinda wanted to be to to be as as, like, principally sound to a creative movement in music in that happened to be rap because that's what we did.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Right? And then he passed away and and we had this sort of body of work with TME and then that was Fred and John and Eric was around. So we just sort of became Sonic some later. We kept that going Mhmm. You know, after after seems passed.
Speaker 2:But, so I learned a lot about that. I learned a lot about, like, yes, you can aspire to be this this great, like, person that changes whatever it is, you know? And, but it's you also have to be sort of accepting of the fact that that that stuff is there's some other worldly stuff with, like, Miles Davis. Like, it's like there there's something else going on. You know?
Speaker 2:And you have to you have to understand, like, you know, that you have to be receptive to that kind of energy. Those vibrations coming in that that set those people apart are not necessarily available to everybody, you know?
Speaker 1:True. True.
Speaker 2:But it was, it was a good, it was a good I mean, that's why people don't, you know, it doesn't miss it stays, you know, relevant to the people that delve as deeply as they can, you know, and, but it's still almost niche. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Because Yeah.
Speaker 2:Who who is you know? I mean, there's a lot of good current jazz and shit like that, but it there was that that time was just There's a
Speaker 1:lot of things that were happening at that time that were in the air that were a part of it. It felt like there's great there's I've I'm into jazz too, and I Right. I actually work with jazz musicians and blah blah blah. So there's great jazz musicians right now, but that was a very, very different time. I don't know how to explain that.
Speaker 1:Like, it's just the vibe of it at that time was very different. There was something about being a jazz player. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and that's that's that's what I'm saying. Like, there are people that that are extremely but there was just something to that time. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, and I think a lot of that happened a lot of that happens with with the hip hop, the different eras in in in hip hop music too. You know?
Speaker 1:I agree. Your first album came out in 04, Telekintesson.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:What how do you feel like do you feel like there's been this major evolution since that first album or do you feel like you've kinda stayed on the same the same, playing field?
Speaker 2:No. There's definitely an evolution because the the first one, I'll be honest, like, I I had never produced anything before, I think, Rocket. Gotcha. Rocket is Rocket is a song by Sonic some that came out pretty late in the Sonic some stuff. You know?
Speaker 2:I think it's on films or, yeah, maybe it's on yeah. Or it was just a single. I think it's on films, but I had never made a beat before that. And that was actually how I sort of made the connection with Def Jokes is is I knew Meach. Meach was handling our our business and stuff for Sonic Song.
Speaker 2:And, I would see Al at Ozone. Entertainment. So, that was how I sort of made, I played Rocket for Al and I was like, yo, you make a record like this, I'll fucking put it out.
Speaker 1:Oh, all right.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh shit. I had no idea. I was even making it good here. You know? It was like I remember it was like I was just just all I had was like little bookshelf speakers and an and an MPC 2000 XL and just got it because I had literally was like, it wasn't that I wanted to break away from TME.
Speaker 2:It was just like, I couldn't, there was always it it's issues when people are look because they were producing for so many people. They were
Speaker 1:producing
Speaker 2:for like half the
Speaker 1:Bronx. Right. Right.
Speaker 2:So, you know what I'm saying? And and running Fred was running his studio, which was right across the street from my building. So it was just hard to get, you know, things going and, and sometimes, and I would be like, well, I'll just, just get this for fun and see what happens. And then I sort of, I sort of developed this sort of sound that I wanted realized that I wanted to rhyme over. And that was more akin to the stuff that it influenced me, the electro stuff.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. But that first record I think is is is cool because it's a it's a time capsule in a moment in time and it's cool. But I mean, I was like, Sam, you know, I was using, like, test tones as instruments. So, you know,
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, that's cool. No. But it's the bro, that's that's hip hop. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, that's hip hop.
Speaker 1:Taking what you got. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Doesn't matter nothing. It was, you know, and that's that's sort of what it it was for me at the beginning. And that is that record, you know, if you listen to it, you it's it's cool. I mean, there's definitely some good starter stuff in there, but you know, it's to me at least.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it's at this point, you know, I actually have an idea and, and
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Know know know my way around things a little bit.
Speaker 1:A little bit more. Right. Doing a Hail Mary Mall and collaborating with ASAP. How did that all come about?
Speaker 2:That would that was just a byproduct of us being on tour all the time. Yeah. Because yeah. Like, he like, he, I think the first show I did with him was actually in Portland Okay. Which is crazy.
Speaker 2:But, yeah. Like, I I had to fill in. Like, I I had somebody couldn't make it up, maybe Lyft or or Okay. Move or somebody could make it up. I don't remember exactly, but he hit me up and we went and we had it like a blast.
Speaker 2:You know? Mhmm. We had like a legit good time because I we we weren't we didn't all those dudes and jokes were like in Brooklyn and I was in the Bronx. So I didn't see them as much as as people might think. You know, I wasn't around the the core unit of jokes, all that much.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, me and Ace, we just, you know, we would see each other at certain things, mostly label, label related and we would, we just kinda clicked, you know? Yeah. And so one time when he needed, somebody to fill in to do the hype stuff Yeah. He was like, yo, you wanna do it? And I went out there and we had a ball and then we just stayed torn together forever.
Speaker 1:Where was that in your so your first what was your first tour?
Speaker 2:My first tour was probably my first like official tour would be Sonic Song.
Speaker 1:Sonic Song. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that was
Speaker 1:How many days was that like a big was that a big one? Was that a short one?
Speaker 2:It was me, Mike Ladd. It was Sonic Some, Mike Ladd, and Antipop.
Speaker 1:Okay. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:We went out to the West Coast. I had never been out never been to the West Coast. I'd never been really out of two places. I had never been out of the DMV
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I'd never been out of the Bronx, really. Mhmm. New York. Let's say New York. I I did live in Queens for about a year and I lived in Brooklyn for about 6 months before I've been but I was in the Bronx for, like, 20 years, 20 years.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But, so I had never been to the west coast and any of that. And and I guess we Mitchie put this thing together and we went out to the West Coast, and it did not go well. It was it was it there was not a lot of people at those shows.
Speaker 1:And How many shows did you guys play?
Speaker 2:I think we only ended up being able to keep because, you know, like, if there's nobody if
Speaker 1:There's nobody there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do it. You know what I'm saying? Like, if there's no if nothing is funding the machine, the machine can't go.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what we were sort of banking on. We were banking on the the strength that people were were gonna come to these joints. And so a couple of first you know, a couple of nights where it doesn't happen and you're like, oh, shit. Yeah. So I think we had, we ended up doing just 4 on that one.
Speaker 2:It was Okay. Oh, we did an LA show at the LA Ray, and that's that's kind of a big spot. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's yeah. It's not a small spot.
Speaker 2:And I I had laryngitis randomly because I used to get sick before every tour. I you know, that's that's one of the things is I used to get sick. And no matter what I did, I'd be like, put myself in a bubble before a tour and I would still get sick. Like one time I got the mumps.
Speaker 1:Maybe you think mumps, bro?
Speaker 2:Who gets the mumps? Nobody gets the mumps. I got well, technically, I had paratitis.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But that's that's the the shit that does the mumps.
Speaker 1:You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, I woke up. I was married at the time, and I woke up. And my wife was like, yo, why is your fate that you get in a fight? And I was like, not I was drinking heavy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's probably also why I was, like
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Always sick. But Yeah. I was drinking like crazy at the time, like like ridiculous amounts of alcohol Yeah. Every night. So I I woke up.
Speaker 2:I was, like, at a party in the night before, and she she was like, yo, what's wrong with your face, man? You you must have gotten a fight, but some somebody beat your ass. And I got up and I was like, I don't remember fighting anybody. And I got up and my face was all swollen. And I was like, what is happening?
Speaker 2:I went to open my mouth just to, you know, like wide, like, be like, ah, ah, like, stretch it out and put an open my mouth.
Speaker 1:Oh, damn.
Speaker 2:And it was like all this crazy pain in under my ear and everything else. And I went to the Montefiore and they were like they took one look at my face and were like, yo. You got the the mums, man. You can't come in the in the thing. You can't like, just come straight back here with me.
Speaker 1:Weren't they handing out vaccines for that in, like, the eighties, bro?
Speaker 2:Like Yes. Yes. No. I I was I had my MMR vaccine. But that was what that's what it was.
Speaker 2:That was the joke, and that was before me and Ace were going to Brazil for the first time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right. And I was like, yo. I I don't know what to tell you, bro. I got the mumps. You know?
Speaker 2:And he he would joke. He'd be like, oh, what you gonna get next? Rubella?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Old school disease, like, the the the plague.
Speaker 1:So that tour, so you guys flew out probably and then drove, to do your dates on that tour and then Yeah.
Speaker 2:We we flew out, rented rented a couple of vans, couple of 15 passengers, and I saw the West Coast and under you know, I we tried to do the tour, but it just wasn't it was like you know, it was that that was my first experience of of tour.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and how that all that stuff works and how, like, really things impact everything about that. Like, who's playing down the street? It was like, like, everywhere we're going, souls of mischief was, like, playing across the street.
Speaker 1:That's not good for y'all at all.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you know, you play in the West Coast and they're, like, the biggest, you know, you know, indie rap.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They were
Speaker 2:hot as they on. Like, I wonder like, it was like it was like Soldier Bishops and, like, Slum Village.
Speaker 1:Right. Like, right. And it was
Speaker 2:like we were we're we're like, god. People will be at our show.
Speaker 1:It worked out real well. I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Right. Nobody was at our show.
Speaker 1:So by the time so how many so by the time you did that first tour with Def Jokes, you had done a few tours since then or it was just like a couple
Speaker 2:Oh, no. That was that was Ozone. That was before all the Def Jokes stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. No. That's what I'm saying. By the time so with this tour, you're we were just talking about you had a bunch of stuff in between before you did the Def Jokes thing or or you okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I had to well, we had that that record was was sort of a tour for, you know, a few of us had records out. I think, anti pop had, the the one that came out on 75 arc and Mike had, I think, after future at that point, and we had the sanity annex. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So this was the beginning of of all of it. You know? Yeah. And, yeah. So so though there that was probably 5 or 6 years before Jokes.
Speaker 1:Got you. Yeah. What's what's been your most, like, plush tour experience?
Speaker 2:All the all the stuff I did with Ace.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All that stuff was yeah. Because he's he brings them in. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:People come out to see the the kid Ace, and, they those were always we're always well taken care of. I mean, some of those were, you know, because you played when you're like that size. Yeah. You know, on an indie level, like you gotta play a markets and b markets. Yep.
Speaker 2:So b markets, you're not those aren't really that plush, but for the most part, you know, those
Speaker 1:an a market stuff.
Speaker 2:All those are all those are good, but I I've been blessed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Like like, I've I've had some rough ones and I but for the most part, I would say that people have been, you know, kind of accommodating.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What was the roughest one?
Speaker 2:Man, there's been so there's been a lot of those.
Speaker 1:Other than other than your burst your, burst your, your, the Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that wasn't that wasn't technically at core. But the the the friend of Thor that I tried to do on my own was pretty rough. Yeah. Because that was really that was really some road road dog shit. You know?
Speaker 2:Okay. That was really like, I'm going out here and I'm seeing what happens and but there was actually good turnouts at that point because it was so far into my career. You know? Yep. Like early stuff, like Sonic some would would get these crazy gigs.
Speaker 2:Like, some of those were super rough because just because. Yeah. But we'd get these, like, crazy gigs. Like, we would play, like, all tomorrow's party in, like, in in Europe, and it would be that's that's a huge gig for
Speaker 1:people. Of course.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? And and it it was we weren't really, you know, like Mhmm. In our minds, we we belong.
Speaker 1:Every everybody is in their minds.
Speaker 2:We belonged, but, you know, this like, when we get up there and and, you know, the the the the mixers are all fucked up and sending you know, we're sitting there basically talking to the crowd. Like, literally, I'm trying to do stand up for half an hour while my pizza gets fixed during our set at all tomorrow's party. Like Is
Speaker 1:that where you hold, like, your commuted your commuted timing, you think, is having to do, you probably always had it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I always try to I was always a class clown.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like that stuff is hard. Like I would never be a comedian.
Speaker 1:No, man, so that's one of my guilty pleasures, man. I go to the comedy club at once a week, once every 2 weeks. No joke. I love comedy. I
Speaker 2:do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.
Speaker 2:And I
Speaker 1:go see all these great comedians. I keep up with it. I'm really deep into the comedian world. And I just sit there like I would be so terrified. I couldn't give anybody 30 seconds, Let alone like 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes, you know?
Speaker 2:Right. And those are like those are like intimate settings.
Speaker 1:It's wild. You got nothing behind you. You got no one.
Speaker 2:What about like people like Kevin Hart?
Speaker 1:Oh my god, bro.
Speaker 2:Stadiums, man. Like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:It's you and a mic, bro.
Speaker 2:Dude, the the minutes are so long. Yeah. On stage, minutes are so long. Like like, people are like, oh, yeah. You know, you do a half hour set.
Speaker 2:It's not a big deal. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that shit is forever. Like, I'm like, if I was literally if I'm firing under all cylinders. Right?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like, and and I'm really in game shape, I could do 10 songs in 1st minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Right. But they and they but there's still time in between where you guys just, like you gotta make you know, you gotta interact with people, and sometimes that is so hard.
Speaker 1:It is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It is ridiculous. And you yeah. Forget about it. You offend the shit out of people.
Speaker 1:You go from having a having some dope ass shit to getting beers thrown at you and shit.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, man. Like, it's so easy. Like, making people laugh because that's what people are there for. Like Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm here to make me laugh, bro. Yeah. That's shit. Shit, son. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like like, imagine if somebody if you were beefing some with somebody and he was like, yo, make me laugh then. Be like, alright. That'd be the illest that'd be the illest it'd be the it was fight everybody.
Speaker 1:You what speaking of that, you when you and Ace would tour, I remember, you know, your tours, when I was at the label. And I would look at the, like, the set times and all that, and I'd be like, yo, how many minutes is this dude playing? Yeah. What what was the, like, what was the thought process behind that? And I mean, people were engaged the entire time.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like it was too much. I just
Speaker 2:I don't know how. I don't know how. Yeah. Because I and I think that that's that just speaks to to how many people really are really love Ace. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Like, how how how many people are just and I I am too. Like, it's just the guy he what he does is is really unique and it's like, you know, it's it's intrigued. But 45 minutes of anybody rapping, I'm like, alright. I've I've got I get I gotta go.
Speaker 1:Well, you know how it is for cats like me. Like, not only is it, you know let's say somebody does a 75 minute set. I've heard that 75 minute set
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know. Yeah. 35, 40 times? Yeah, man. On that in the, like, last month, I'm like, oh, I'm done with this shit, bro.
Speaker 1:I don't soon as the you know, soon as everything goes on, I walk away, go get something to eat, go do whatever, and cats are like, yo, why aren't you, you know, like, why aren't you sticking around? I'm like, I've heard this before. I've heard it a couple of times.
Speaker 2:And that is that is that is essentially what it is for us too. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like like because with I think the the longest we got our set up too because Ace was just like, I I just need to to do this. You know? I need to make it longer. And we were because we were always doing 45 to an hour Mhmm. For for most of it.
Speaker 2:And then towards the when the catalogs became so extensive.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:There was no way to not make the shows longer because he had to make sure that he was addressing what Like what was current Yep. And his classics. So Right. You know, it's you do something like that, the show it I think it got up to an hour and 40 hour and 45 minutes at some point.
Speaker 1:That's just wild to me, man.
Speaker 2:If I it may have gotten to 2 hours, but it Yeah. It at though at once it got past a 110 minutes
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of performing, it was all a blur to me. You know? Because the only real the only real breaks we ever took was for our DJ to do their
Speaker 1:thing. Right.
Speaker 2:And those were, like, you know, those were 5, 7, 7, 8 minutes.
Speaker 1:Right. The
Speaker 2:rest of the time was was just
Speaker 1:Just like go go go. And it's it's like with y'all, it was definitely like people get up and hey, there's different cadences. It's just bang, bang, bang, right over the head. Just how the records are. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's I don't know how people did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Including yourself. Including yourself.
Speaker 2:I think about it sometimes and I'm like, man, listen. I probably got my let's run my knees all messed up. Probably good with that shit.
Speaker 1:What's your what's your, what's your probably most memorable tour experience? What do you mean be like? That's that's one that for the books, for sure.
Speaker 2:I mean, probably the the Coachella's and, like, Bonnaroo was really memorable. Like, the like, that kinda thing, like, not in a 1000000 years that I think I'd be playing for 40 or 50,000 people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 2:Ever. Like Yeah. I mean, I and I don't. Like, it's not you know, don't get it twisted. I'm not like, oh, you know, I I did that.
Speaker 2:Like, no. I didn't do that. You know what I'm saying? I was helping somebody do that. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:And, that was that was crazy though, just to be a part of that. And and I mean, that stuff is it's nutty to to be in those situations is something that I guess everybody dreams about. And, you know, no matter what I was doing, what my role in that was, it was just amazing. I'll never forget that stuff. Like going out to Coachella and having like a a trailer and all that, you know, it's like like you really did something, you know.
Speaker 2:True. I
Speaker 1:was I was be behind the scenes of it, on the other side, but working with Jordan and all of them and Christian and you guys' tours. And, I do remember you you have to remind me. I feel like Ace did 2 or 3 weeks on and 1 week off. Is that what he did when he would do his tours?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was like, yeah. I don't think it ever went past 3 weeks. Yeah. I mean, like, in the early in the early days, like, in the early parts of it, we were going a little nutty.
Speaker 2:Like, we would we would kinda take whatever, and I remember that kinda had to stop after a few
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it was just too much. It was like It was. Like, when when you're driving, you know, all day and getting off getting on stage, doing your show Yep. And then you have to get up at, like, 5 in the morning to drive because we didn't we weren't busing it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We we weren't in the bus. We were in we would always take vans.
Speaker 1:Smarter. It's hard it's harder, but it financially, it's smarter. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Right. And it I don't I mean, I don't know the logistics of it, but but that's how we did it. And Yeah. That was something we always did from the beginning, you know, from the early days of touring, we were always in the 15 passengers and that eventually just turned into a sprinter and Yeah. But, those, those things were, you know, I feel like I lost what I traded above.
Speaker 1:Memorable. Most memorable.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the, those were the, the, the, the bigger shows, you know, they're like, I think I saw like Santa Gold at, at one of those and like seeing like the police and and and Prince was Yep. The headliner of of Coachella that we played.
Speaker 2:And that was crazy, man. Like, I am in the vicinity of Prince. You know? I mean, that's probably not a you you guys are in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1:It's all it's all it's all,
Speaker 2:Y'all probably saw a dude walking down the street. Right?
Speaker 1:I I run into I ran into Prince a couple times before I moved to the West Coast.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:Surprisingly. One night was the night I got married, actually. It was kinda crazy. But, yeah, I've definitely run into Prince. I think I I think everyone has their, like, oh man, if I see this person that's hella dope.
Speaker 1:But for the most part, we're all in it. So it doesn't really affect us either way, shape or form.
Speaker 2:With Prince? Oh, I
Speaker 1:don't know. No. With Prince? No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Prince is
Speaker 1:def I'm not saying hold on, hold on. Let me be real particular. Prince specifically, I was like, what the fuck? Right? Yes.
Speaker 1:With Prince
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:DJ Premier for me. There's a couple other cats, MCA, like shit like that. Yeah. But like other cats and especially being on the management side, on the working side of it, you're like
Speaker 2:Sure. Sure.
Speaker 1:You're either paying somebody or you're getting them paid. Like your interaction with them is pretty chill. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. It's not some homey shit.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 2:I can dig that. I can dig that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, there's definitely been moments where I was like, it's kinda wild that I'm involved in this right now and this is happening. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Like Yes.
Speaker 1:When you sit there and you think about it, really. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right. And that's that's that's kind of why probably those are the most memorable. I mean, we had, like, the, you know, there was always, like, the 9 thirties and there there were clubs all over the the country that would always be super memorable just because of just the vibe and and the shows always went up and there was always good sound system. You didn't have to, like, stress too many things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then there's some that were memorable for the other reasons. Right.
Speaker 2:Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, so so I guess that I remember all of them. And, like, if if they're not all right in the front. You know?
Speaker 2:Right. But they're all able to be recalled. You know? Right. Like, every everything.
Speaker 2:You know? It's it's it was a good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If you had to, wait. I can't remember. You guys went out with a TM. Right?
Speaker 2:A few different ones. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Who was your main scam?
Speaker 2:Probably James.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. James. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Baker, bro. Baker's the boy, bro.
Speaker 2:Is it with Baker? Is that his
Speaker 1:James Baker. Yeah. You talking about the British dude? No. No.
Speaker 1:No. No. Oh, which James? Oh, j Oh. I know exact James Lynch, bro.
Speaker 1:James Lynch. Lynch is
Speaker 2:probably one we toured with the most. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Lynch is like, Lynch is one of the craziest motherfuckers on the planet, bro. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm about
Speaker 1:to you know what? That's a good I'm a get his ass on here, bro. Actually, I need to catch up with him, bro. Lynch is wild, bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:I wonder how he is these days, bro.
Speaker 2:Who knows? But, yeah, he he was probably the most and then there was we went out with Paul a couple times.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Paul's the boy. Paul's the boy too.
Speaker 2:Paul Wickman.
Speaker 1:Paul Wickman. Yeah, he's a boy too. Paul is, he's very unassuming, you know what I mean? But he knows his shit bro. So a few more questions and I'll get you out of here.
Speaker 1:Number 1 is, what would you be doing if you weren't rapping? Like what would you be doing in your life?
Speaker 2:Oh, man, you know? In my older age, I'm like, what am I gonna be doing? Because I mean, I I really don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1:I Would you still have been connected to music, you think, in
Speaker 2:some some sort of Yeah. I there was no stopping that. When when I started and my, devotion to it and and what I wanted to do, my drive was was that was it for me. That was the only thing that connected to me so deeply that I would do anything with that goal in mind, you know, anything I was having to do was just a means to get to that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? So and that's what I did. And and, you know, it's I I don't really know. It's when I think about that, I'm like, there were a couple of moments where there were some opportunities, like I could have been like regional manager of of a department store on the East Coast called Ames. Okay.
Speaker 2:Which I think ended up becoming Target or Walmart or some, like something else, you know, it was like the, one of the early big box stores on the east coast. Yeah. And they liked me so much that they were, you know, I think I was fresh out of high school. I was like 18 years old and they were like, we want you to be, you know, store manager. And then eventually we wanna set you up to be regional manager.
Speaker 1:I could see myself working for you as a regional manager, bro. Yeah. I feel like we would probably spend most of our time smoking pot out back. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I could I don't know I don't know if I coulda done it. Like, like, it was because they were like I like I was a hard worker at everything I did. You know? I had so many jobs before I started doing music full time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, I just that was just me. It's I just needed I worked and I worked hard. I did I had everything I did. And they were just like, well, you you're good at working.
Speaker 2:You know? So because that's really all all you do to become like a in retail and and Yeah.
Speaker 1:You just gotta work hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You just have to be a hard worker. Yeah. There there's nothing that really separates any regional manager from another one, I guess. Right.
Speaker 2:Except for the for the fact that they work hard. Yeah. And that's that's just what I've always done. I've just been a hard worker. So that's the only reason I've made anything in music was because I'm not like I said, my left hand don't really work that well when it comes to music, and I'm kind of you know, I don't think I'm that sharp, but, you know, but I work hard, you know?
Speaker 2:And, and so that that was really the only opportunity I had to do anything else. The rest was, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't looking too bright for me. I hated school. I didn't like school at all. I didn't like school.
Speaker 2:I didn't like, there wasn't a lot there's not not money come you know, there's no money in the family. So Yeah. There were there's not a lot of opportunity.
Speaker 1:Right. Right.
Speaker 2:Well, not for me. You know? My sister got lucky. My sister got lucky when it come up.
Speaker 1:Did she marry up or what?
Speaker 2:No. She she got in on some tech shit like before Oh, dope. Before tech shit was tech shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Good for her,
Speaker 2:man. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Good for her. Anything upcoming upcoming projects?
Speaker 2:I am working on an album that that I keep saying that I I shoulda had it out before. Like, I I should have had it out probably a year ago, but I'm I'm having to, you know, it's it's different for me now, you know, because I'm not like torn. I'm not I'm not, you know, I have to literally make ends meet again, you know, like like Yeah. I have to tie everything up and Yeah. So it it kinda gets in the way a little bit of Yeah.
Speaker 2:What I really wanna be doing, which is that, but I am working on.
Speaker 1:It.
Speaker 2:Good. And, hopefully, it'll be out by this year, but I've said that now for 2 years. I'll
Speaker 1:show you. I I and also, there's a lot of reasons these things take time too. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean,
Speaker 2:it's it's it's, you know, it's plus, I mean, it's not necessarily the easiest thing to make a record.
Speaker 1:Oh, man. It's hard as shit, bro. I don't and that's like step 1. Like, making it's, like, the first step. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then for it to be good, it's like, you know, because the the older you get and the more understanding you have of music, you can't and hear things differently. When you're first starting out, there's like, sort of a hubris to it, you know, like, like what I'm doing is good. Yeah. And there's this confidence, you know, the it's of youth and and just to know that you're the illest plus music has changed so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It has.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Because I mean, how many what what are people are people listening to people bar now? Yeah. You know, people are, but
Speaker 1:Not like you know,
Speaker 2:To you know, there's so many things you that's like a whole podcast in itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. How the the the music itself has changed and and what is actually, like, you know, I guess, I don't know, lucrative to people, you know? And and
Speaker 1:we just had a whole reckoning. Right. We just had a whole reckoning and and rap with that Kendrick. You know, it it all it answered a question of like, it made you feel good that there still is the love for the arc, you know what I mean, at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:But but if you think about it, like, if it wasn't those 2 Yeah. They wouldn't have yeah. It wouldn't have been anything like this. So, you know, and that speaks to, you know, that speaks to their power and that but it also speaks to just the climate of it. It's like
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't I don't know. It's just it's that too. Because, you know, the older you get in this shit, like, the more you think about those things and you think about, well, yeah, I gotta you know, the car note is due, the rent is due, and and, I gotta, you know And the bus shit
Speaker 1:it done.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And with with streaming is, you know, there's the forget it. No. I'm just complaining. Let me
Speaker 1:ask you this. If you had to, leave leave the people with one thing, someone who's trying to get into this or wants to do this, what's the one thing you would say? I know it's a cliche question, but I'm always curious about it.
Speaker 2:Just you'll know that if you're starting out, you will know after, probably 3 or 4 years. You'll know if you're gonna stay in it or not. You know? So just, you know, if you really love it and you you will ride whatever it is and and whatever direction you're gonna go in that. And also I think it's it's very important to not, you know, like I was just talking about it about the the confidence that comes with youth and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Don't let that don't let that mess up in a, you know, like, listening to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? But it's also it's also that's a dangerous it's just such a hard thing to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it's you gotta be careful. You gotta be right
Speaker 2:in the
Speaker 1:middle of it. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:You got and you gotta, like, get with the right people. Like, getting with the right people is such a big thing. Yeah. Because there's so many people in this business that are literally not the right people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think there's more not right people than there are right people.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, there's there's people in this business that are not have no they they they do not care.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Literally do not care about music or you as a person, but
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's that is, you
Speaker 1:know That's a part of it.
Speaker 2:That's with every business, I'm sure. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then give me, before we jump off, give me your, what's what's your one tip on tour?
Speaker 2:Probably take as many pictures, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, I didn't take enough pictures of that shoot.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? I, it's it because it it touring when you get to if you're lucky enough to be a part of a tour like I was, that was large and and, you know, good in in a lot of ways, you tend to be in the moment more than you are. Mhmm. And you somehow aren't in the moment. Right.
Speaker 2:You're saying because you're only in these cities every once in a while for, you know, 12 hours sometimes.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And, but just, you know, try and see things.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know? Because I didn't I did I went to a few things that I like, I was in Japan and Australia and and places like that, and I don't have any pictures of that shit. Right. And I was, I was there. Like, sometimes I have to like, yeah, I was in Japan.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I was there when people are talking about Tokyo or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, I've been there. Yeah. You know? And that's that's that's a wild it's a it's a it's a, like, a head game or whatever. I
Speaker 1:don't know.
Speaker 2:It's a head trip
Speaker 1:because Head trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, I don't know if like like that that really happens. You know? So
Speaker 1:it's wild. I'm going through that myself sometimes. With that with that said, I'm a get you up out of here, man. Let you let you have the rest of your day. We should talk soon, though.
Speaker 1:Actually, I'll just hit you up, and we'll talk soon. Just because I'm I just wanna catch up in general and just, like, see see what's going
Speaker 2:on. Of course. But I
Speaker 1:really appreciate you being on the show, bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me, man. It's been good.
Speaker 1:You're in that first slate of people. You're in good, like, good group of people. So
Speaker 2:That's what's up, man. I hope I hope I didn't ramble too much.
Speaker 1:No, man. That's we're here to we're here to talk. That's what we're here to do.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah.
Speaker 1:Work. Alright. We'll talk to you soon, my guy.
Speaker 2:Alright, brother.
Speaker 1:Alright, man. Yep. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to the loadout. This episode was produced by me with music by the incredible Mike and additional editing and mixing also by Mike.
Speaker 1:If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe and rate the podcast. Follow me at probably Ashanti on all platforms. Until next time, keep buying those tickets. Peace.